Harry,
Thanks, exactly my point....
(06-27-2010 03:08 PM)Technoman Wrote: [ -> ]Harry,
Thanks, exactly my point....
On a somewhat related note.. This is why i don't do business with them. In this country those under the age of 18 ( 21 in some states ) cannot sign a binding contract. That means if so and so sells me this or that plugin and says this or that is covered blah blah blah it is NOT UNLESS mom and dad/guardian over 18-21 depending on state are the ones who signed the contract. Basically means if something happened as a result of the kid i could not take action because there is no binding contract. Now if their legal guardian-parent signs the contract with you then all is good because that parent is then held responsible. Again though they have to be 18-21 depending on what state they reside.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5030458_legal-...http://www.ehow.com/about_5030458_legal-contrac
As you seen over there.. there are alot of kids admiting on Mybb in that thread that there geting around the legal age system, isnt that kinda of scary cause it is if you ask me... where are the bloody parents showing these kids???
(06-27-2010 03:25 PM)Technoman Wrote: [ -> ]As you seen over there.. there are alot of kids admiting on Mybb in that thread that there geting around the legal age system, isnt that kinda of scary cause it is if you ask me... where are the bloody parents showing these kids???
It is probably not a matter of what the parent is showing them but more of a matter of the parent not paying attention. Alot of it is ignorance especially in this country. It really runs rampant on MYBB. gets back to a issue i mentioned before about lack of adults involved with the project.
I mean really all of those who have ever done a theme/plugin etc and said not to do this or that with it really cant do anything if someone did and that is because whoever their legal guardian is did not issue the contract. Again kids cannot make or sign binding contracts which that is when they try to invoke a copyright or whatever. Why buyers have no protection if said product was from a minor. So yeah if the child makes a theme or plugin and has mom or dad do the contract and thus take responsibility for it then yeah the product is then covered as that was done legally. If something happens then the parent/guardian 18-21 who issued the contract is responsible.
I don't think there's any issue with MyBB and underage dealings.
All in seriousness, do you expect parents to watch over their teen kids like a hawk?
As for legalities, I don't think people should care that much, though it seems that the MyBB community is far too serious on that side. Seriously, it's a community project and people should just get along with each other, not think of ways to trip other people up.
And whether something is legally binding doesn't mean much. If I go steal a paid plugin and use it on my forum, what can the other party do about it? If a C&D doesn't work, what options do they have? Apart from some form of defamation perhaps, it's seriously not worth actually pursuing legal action against me. If they did, at best, they could only reclaim damages (the $5 or so they didn't get), and that's about it.
I think people should generally stop thinking about legalities. Law on the internet is rather dodgy at best, and in many cases, never enforced.
As we both agree on many things, and an addition to all of this
The fault of parents I agree fully and this is why todays children have such low self-esteem in the real world.
Harry what you and me have done was criticize there actions, and it is great that we can do so. These children need guidelines for good communication skills and more suggestions. We got to somehow get those children to act responsibly while achieving a good relationship with us and then along with the public. lol
(06-27-2010 04:02 PM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think there's any issue with MyBB and underage dealings.
All in seriousness,
I think people should generally stop thinking about legalities. Law on the internet is rather dodgy at best, and in many cases, never enforced.
No, this is the whole point, if we dont lay rules down now and let them get away with it now, what will our futur as parents be like or the kids of the futur? No rules No Regulations?
Its better to teach them now the right from the wrong so that they can teach there own children of there futur the same.
So that there is a constant flow of rules...
(06-27-2010 04:02 PM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think there's any issue with MyBB and underage dealings.
All in seriousness, do you expect parents to watch over their teen kids like a hawk?
As for legalities, I don't think people should care that much, though it seems that the MyBB community is far too serious on that side. Seriously, it's a community project and people should just get along with each other, not think of ways to trip other people up.
And whether something is legally binding doesn't mean much. If I go steal a paid plugin and use it on my forum, what can the other party do about it? If a C&D doesn't work, what options do they have? Apart from some form of defamation perhaps, it's seriously not worth actually pursuing legal action against me. If they did, at best, they could only reclaim damages (the $5 or so they didn't get), and that's about it.
I think people should generally stop thinking about legalities. Law on the internet is rather dodgy at best, and in many cases, never enforced.
It is not that dodgy here in the USA. Those under 18-21 ( depending on state ) cannot sign a legal binding contract period. Thus they cannot legally enforce copyright or anything else. However if the author is of age and has a signed contract then you better believe they can pursue the matter in court. Same thing for the buyer. The buyer cannot legally hold a minor responsible because any such contract with a minor is void because the minor cannot sign a legal binding contract. It does not matter what you are doing on or offline.
Again if the minor has a adult as the copyright holder/contractor then it is then on that adult and both parties/product are covered. No exceptions. Too many on here try and get around that by doing basically what you did. Not saying you meant any harm either. There is laws that cover this stuff on the net but most just don't understand or ignore them. Consumers are equally protected on and offline IF it is with a binding contract. Atleast in the USA they are.
Also to add if children don't learn to obey rules now as we speak and as the Internet grows this may create more problems with authority later in there own personal lives. Why should we be afraid to say NO to children???
(06-27-2010 04:04 PM)Technoman Wrote: [ -> ]No, this is the whole point, if we dont lay rules down now and let them get away with it now, what will our futur as parents be like or the kids of the futur? No rules No Regulations?
Its better to teach them now the right from the wrong so that they can teach there own children of there futur the same.
So that there is a constant flow of rules...
It is more so the proper/legal way to do it. Really it is the parents who should be doing this and thus teaching them those lessons. Keep in mind most of those on the team are minors themselves. It is really on Chris Boulton as it is his project and yes he is a adult.
(06-27-2010 04:27 PM)Technoman Wrote: [ -> ]Also to add if children don't learn to obey rules now as we speak and as the Internet grows this may create more problems with authority later in there own personal lives. Why should we be afraid to say NO to children???
As mentioned above most of the team members on MYBB are minors themselves. But yeah we all should be showing them the proper way to do things. Why we have the ignorance that we do now because nothing has been done or said and it does not help that the project was started by someone who was a minor themselves at the time. Why this subject usually falls on deaf ears over there. Usually what happens ( as you seen ) is they get insulted for someone even mentioning the age thing.
(06-27-2010 04:04 PM)Technoman Wrote: [ -> ]No, this is the whole point, if we dont lay rules down now and let them get away with it now, what will our futur as parents be like or the kids of the futur? No rules No Regulations?
Its better to teach them now the right from the wrong so that they can teach there own children of there futur the same.
So that there is a constant flow of rules...
You're over generalising.
The whole point in being a teenager is to break rules, is it not?
This has nothing to do with
knowing whether something is right or not - they're not braindead.
I'm sure practically every teen knows they shouldn't be looking at porn, but do you think they care?
Should parents be so draconian to remove their kids' wants of personal privacy?
(06-27-2010 04:23 PM)Harry Wrote: [ -> ]Thus they cannot legally enforce copyright or anything else.
Copyright is peculiar in that it's automatic. You don't need to sign anything to own copyright over something.
(06-27-2010 04:23 PM)Harry Wrote: [ -> ]However if the author is of age and has a signed contract then you better believe they can pursue the matter in court.
Can doesn't mean they will. Litigation is an expensive and tiresome process, especially in common law countries like the US.
You need to stop thinking about law and more on the realities in an open source community.
(06-27-2010 04:23 PM)Harry Wrote: [ -> ]Same thing for the buyer. The buyer cannot legally hold a minor responsible because any such contract with a minor is void because the minor cannot sign a legal binding contract. It does not matter what you are doing on or offline.
There are, of course, exceptions. For example, a kid can go into a store and buy a lolly. Legally, that is considered a contract.
(06-27-2010 04:23 PM)Harry Wrote: [ -> ]Too many on here try and get around that by doing basically what you did. Not saying you meant any harm either. There is laws that cover this stuff on the net but most just don't understand or ignore them.
Online, it's much more difficult to enforce things. For one, the two parties may not exist in the same country, and then it can be a little unclear over what rights each party has.
Getting it to work can be very costly and time consuming. Reasonable people generally don't bother, unless they can potentially (and with a reasonably good chance) win a large reward for the effort.
$10 subscription fee? No way anyone's gonna take that to court.