[split] The SUPER EPIC!! debate about paid MyBB modifications!

[ZiNgA BuRgA]

(05-12-2010 01:55 PM)Harry Wrote:  Look at it this way. What does paid plugins really encourage? It encourages more to do the same. Oh look i can make a fast buck so hell why not just charge for these plugins.

To be fair, that's one way to do things.
If you attract business, then it's a way to gain popularity.  Ultimately, the project exists to be used - being open source is one factor, but if it attracts money, then people will contribute.

I still think you're just assuming things purely from your viewpoint.  Let's go with your assumption that it does indeed encourage people to charge for everything.  According to what I'm picking up, this attracts more and more people to do the same.  What does that do?  It increases competition.  And when competition goes up, these sorts of things start to fall apart, for similar reasons many (not all) people use MyBB in favour of paid forum systems.

[Pirata Nervo]

My point is very simple: I coded the plugins, I am free to sell them or just give them away for free. I sell some of them and you're not forced to buy them, only if you want them. It's simple and I am not forced to give it to you for free.
Imo it's not the paid plugins that are "destroying" MyBB, it has nothing to do with it, there will always be developers which will code free plugins, even I will.
If they want to make money off it, they're free to do it. But according to you Harry, we should be forced to release anything we make (even if for our own websites only, we should release anything we code) for free just because you want. That's what I got from your posts and I'm sorry but I can't agree with that.

[Harry]

(05-12-2010 11:40 PM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  My point is very simple: I coded the plugins, I am free to sell them or just give them away for free. I sell some of them and you're not forced to buy them, only if you want them. It's simple and I am not forced to give it to you for free.
Imo it's not the paid plugins that are "destroying" MyBB, it has nothing to do with it, there will always be developers which will code free plugins, even I will.
If they want to make money off it, they're free to do it. But according to you Harry, we should be forced to release anything we make (even if for our own websites only, we should release anything we code) for free just because you want. That's what I got from your posts and I'm sorry but I can't agree with that.

No that is not what i am saying. Have them at your sites. All i am saying is that they should NOT be posted on the MYBB community forums. It does not promote or foster a opensource project at all. Do you see this at phpbb? No you do not and there has never been a problem with it either and YET despite having a crappy software they thrive bigtime with massive donations and everything else. Sorry but all those paid modifications ARE a HUGE part of the problem at MYBB. It is why we see constant bickering and everything else. And ofcourse now nobody wants to try and do anything to help and thus see why zinga here has lost the desire to be a part of there. As said above myself and many others were around long before the paid plugins and watched a number of opensource projects grow from nothing into something huge ( much bigger then mybb ) without those paid plugins. Most people made extra money by helping others develop their sites via coding or design and that sort of thing. Still much better money in that too.

---

(05-12-2010 07:13 PM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:  

(05-12-2010 01:55 PM)Harry Wrote:  Look at it this way. What does paid plugins really encourage? It encourages more to do the same. Oh look i can make a fast buck so hell why not just charge for these plugins.

To be fair, that's one way to do things.
If you attract business, then it's a way to gain popularity.  Ultimately, the project exists to be used - being open source is one factor, but if it attracts money, then people will contribute.

I still think you're just assuming things purely from your viewpoint.  Let's go with your assumption that it does indeed encourage people to charge for everything.  According to what I'm picking up, this attracts more and more people to do the same.  What does that do?  It increases competition.  And when competition goes up, these sorts of things start to fall apart, for similar reasons many (not all) people use MyBB in favour of paid forum systems.

You know better then that. Again explain to me why phpbb and many other opensource projects have thrived without the paid plugins? Why have they not seen the petty issues and or crap that has invaded mybb?

Sorry but they are a huge part of the problem and always will be as long as they are there on the community forums. And ofcourse MYBB will never be taken serious by larger/older sites. 1.4 should have done that for mybb but it did not ( yeah it got a few over but a few have given up and left too ) and this issue of the paid plugins and the mod community and heck mybb community forums is the main reasons why i hear many avoid it or have left.

[ZiNgA BuRgA]

(05-13-2010 05:33 AM)Harry Wrote:  You know better then that. Again explain to me why phpbb and many other opensource projects have thrived without the paid plugins? Why have they not seen the petty issues and or crap that has invaded mybb?

Competition.
Not that I care for other projects.
And not all communities are the same anyway, even if managed the same way.

[Pirata Nervo]

(05-13-2010 05:33 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(05-12-2010 11:40 PM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  My point is very simple: I coded the plugins, I am free to sell them or just give them away for free. I sell some of them and you're not forced to buy them, only if you want them. It's simple and I am not forced to give it to you for free.
Imo it's not the paid plugins that are "destroying" MyBB, it has nothing to do with it, there will always be developers which will code free plugins, even I will.
If they want to make money off it, they're free to do it. But according to you Harry, we should be forced to release anything we make (even if for our own websites only, we should release anything we code) for free just because you want. That's what I got from your posts and I'm sorry but I can't agree with that.

No that is not what i am saying. Have them at your sites. All i am saying is that they should NOT be posted on the MYBB community forums. It does not promote or foster a opensource project at all. Do you see this at phpbb? No you do not and there has never been a problem with it either and YET despite having a crappy software they thrive bigtime with massive donations and everything else. Sorry but all those paid modifications ARE a HUGE part of the problem at MYBB. It is why we see constant bickering and everything else. And ofcourse now nobody wants to try and do anything to help and thus see why zinga here has lost the desire to be a part of there. As said above myself and many others were around long before the paid plugins and watched a number of opensource projects grow from nothing into something huge ( much bigger then mybb ) without those paid plugins. Most people made extra money by helping others develop their sites via coding or design and that sort of thing. Still much better money in that too.

---

(05-12-2010 07:13 PM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:  

(05-12-2010 01:55 PM)Harry Wrote:  Look at it this way. What does paid plugins really encourage? It encourages more to do the same. Oh look i can make a fast buck so hell why not just charge for these plugins.

To be fair, that's one way to do things.
If you attract business, then it's a way to gain popularity.  Ultimately, the project exists to be used - being open source is one factor, but if it attracts money, then people will contribute.

I still think you're just assuming things purely from your viewpoint.  Let's go with your assumption that it does indeed encourage people to charge for everything.  According to what I'm picking up, this attracts more and more people to do the same.  What does that do?  It increases competition.  And when competition goes up, these sorts of things start to fall apart, for similar reasons many (not all) people use MyBB in favour of paid forum systems.

You know better then that. Again explain to me why phpbb and many other opensource projects have thrived without the paid plugins? Why have they not seen the petty issues and or crap that has invaded mybb?

Sorry but they are a huge part of the problem and always will be as long as they are there on the community forums. And ofcourse MYBB will never be taken serious by larger/older sites. 1.4 should have done that for mybb but it did not ( yeah it got a few over but a few have given up and left too ) and this issue of the paid plugins and the mod community and heck mybb community forums is the main reasons why i hear many avoid it or have left.

Could you please elaborate why paid plugins are the cause of MyBB's problem? If they suddenly disappeared, would the problems disappear too? Which problems are related to paid plugins? I'd like you to answer these questions in detail if possible, I don't really see any sense in your reply to be honest.
Plus, I haven't seen Yumi saying he left the MyBB website because of paid plugins as you said. Why would someone leave a website because someone else is selling plugins?

[Harry]

(05-13-2010 10:03 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  Could you please elaborate why paid plugins are the cause of MyBB's problem? If they suddenly disappeared, would the problems disappear too? Which problems are related to paid plugins? I'd like you to answer these questions in detail if possible, I don't really see any sense in your reply to be honest.
Plus, I haven't seen Yumi saying he left the MyBB website because of paid plugins as you said. Why would someone leave a website because someone else is selling plugins?

Before i answer.. I'll be happy once the horrible nested quotes are done away with.
Anyways..

Lets look at phpbb. Yeah i know some hate that but it brings home the point.
They dont have them. We all know that. Soo..
1. Do you see the same endless drama on their forums? No you do not.
2. They continue to thrive despite having not so great of a script. Think about this. Unsure if you ever used a phpbb forum but i can tell you i have and it is nothing like mybb or near as good.
3. PHPBB has done just fine and continues to do just fine without paid mods/plugins on that site. No issues with donations/sponsers and or supporters. Ofcourse a huge modification community to boot. Sorry but the paid stuff would NOT be missed. And i am near certain that if you or the rest left others ( probably those more into the opensource way such as yumi here )  would fill the gap. A HUGE win for mybb.

Nobody wants to do anything ( see again yumi ) as far as developing and releasing free stuff anymore and the reason is because of the paid guys and their nasty rotten attitudes and then you have developers/staff involved with the crap as well making it 100x worse. NOT saying you are one of them but everyone and thier mother are well aware of the nasty attitudes of the paid plugin guys at mybb. Read the development sites like Taz etc. Again it is the competitive nature of them that has made for the rotten attitudes because everyone is killing eachother to get ahead or slamming the guy who asks for a free alternative which should NEVER HAPPEN on a opensource project PERIOD but yet it happens constantly. Yeah i have read the crap from one paid plugin author jumping on another paid guy saying they are selling crap etc etc etc. It is totally out of control. So yeah if they did disappear i am 99.9% confident the problems would go away. KEEP in mind though as i have mentioned there is some needed changes with the hot heads on the development/staff team as well. Not many really but i wont point fingers at any one person. All i am pretty sure know where the problems are. Again this stuff is well known. In short they need to stick with development and in the background out of the public eye except to help if need be. I do think though the attitudes would lighten up if the paid competitive crap was removed from the community forums. That is because there would be alot less bickering and everything else. All equalls less stress for the developers and rest of the team members. Would probably go a long ways towards improved attitudes that people go on about.

MYBB when i first arrived ( Sept 2006 ) was a great and friendly place and then the paid crap arrived and changed all that and everything has gone down hill since. Look at who MYBB continues to attract and look at who they dont. The answers are all there.

AGAIN i am not saying to have your own sites to sell them but again they need to be removed from the MYBB community all together. wanna advertise them do as all the rest do and use the showcase forum or better yet release some free stuff on mybb and do support at your own sites where people can see the paid stuff you all offer. Ofcourse you have your sigs as well.

Now how about you tell me how any of what i say is wrong IF you think i am that is?  I am almost certain you will and it is pretty obvious as to why. Sorry dude but they need to be removed from the community forums and more encouragement towards the opensource way is what needs to happen.

MYBB has done a ton to attract more and better users. Great software. They changed the license and still nothing and that leaves the stuff i have mentioned. Thus where the problems are. They can change the license all they want but i can assure you and everyone else that as long as those paid plugins are on that forum MYBB will never be taken serious ( big sponsers etc )  and the problems will continue. Yeah the paid guys chipped in big time for the donation drive for the mybb.com but again that wont mean a thing with things as is.

And understand i too love mybb and why it pisses me off to see this. It is a great script and as said support for me has always been great. Thus i don't wanna see it stuck in the shadows because of this paid crap. If i did not care i would not be typing up books for responses and would not say a damn thing. IF mybb would stick with opensource and encourage it i am near certain donations would pick up. I know i would. Why the heck should anyone feel a desire to donate when support/developers etc are charging and or associated with money making off the system? That is like me asking for donations for my forum on my paid site even though the forum itself brings in no money. I would be laughed at. Yes people think like that. They think...Why should i/they give them money when they are taking it in via ( in this case ) the paid plugins etc? Yes all know Chris is the main one but most of the posting etc ( most visible people ) are the team members/developers/support guys. How many are associated with or have paid plugins etc? So yeah they are not just causing issues with the attitudes it as well causes issues with donations/sponsers. So yeah they need to go.

[Pirata Nervo]

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(05-13-2010 10:03 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  Could you please elaborate why paid plugins are the cause of MyBB's problem? If they suddenly disappeared, would the problems disappear too? Which problems are related to paid plugins? I'd like you to answer these questions in detail if possible, I don't really see any sense in your reply to be honest.
Plus, I haven't seen Yumi saying he left the MyBB website because of paid plugins as you said. Why would someone leave a website because someone else is selling plugins?

Before i answer.. I'll be happy once the horrible nested quotes are done away with.
Anyways..

Lets look at phpbb. Yeah i know some hate that but it brings home the point.
They dont have them. We all know that. Soo..
1. Do you see the same endless drama on their forums? No you do not.
2. They continue to thrive despite having not so great of a script. Think about this. Unsure if you ever used a phpbb forum but i can tell you i have and it is nothing like mybb or near as good.
3. PHPBB has done just fine and continues to do just fine without paid mods/plugins on that site. No issues with donations/sponsers and or supporters. Ofcourse a huge modification community to boot. Sorry but the paid stuff would NOT be missed. And i am near certain that if you or the rest left others ( probably those more into the opensource way such as yumi here )  would fill the gap. A HUGE win for mybb.

Those 3 arguments are in my opinion invalid arguments. We're talking about MyBB, not PHPbb and they can't be compared since they're different in many things.
You haven't actually answered my questions directly, without giving PHPbb's examples which are invalid for this discussion since we're talking about MyBB.
I'm up for Open Source, NewPoints is GPL and so are some of my other projects outside of MyBB.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  Nobody wants to do anything ( see again yumi ) as far as developing and releasing free stuff anymore and the reason is because of the paid guys and their nasty rotten attitudes and then you have developers/staff involved with the crap as well making it 100x worse. NOT saying you are one of them but everyone and thier mother are well aware of the nasty attitudes of the paid plugin guys at mybb. Read the development sites like Taz etc. Again it is the competitive nature of them that has made for the rotten attitudes because everyone is killing eachother to get ahead or slamming the guy who asks for a free alternative which should NEVER HAPPEN on a opensource project PERIOD but yet it happens constantly. Yeah i have read the crap from one paid plugin author jumping on another paid guy saying they are selling crap etc etc etc. It is totally out of control. So yeah if they did disappear i am 99.9% confident the problems would go away.

No one wants to do free plugins anymore? By looking at the first page I can't see any paid plugins: http://community.mybb.com/forum-102.html
You haven't yet proved how MyBB's problems would disappear. What are exactly MyBB's problems from your point of view?

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  KEEP in mind though as i have mentioned there is some needed changes with the hot heads on the development/staff team as well. Not many really but i wont point fingers at any one person. All i am pretty sure know where the problems are. Again this stuff is well known. In short they need to stick with development and in the background out of the public eye except to help if need be. I do think though the attitudes would lighten up if the paid competitive crap was removed from the community forums. That is because there would be alot less bickering and everything else. All equalls less stress for the developers and rest of the team members. Would probably go a long ways towards improved attitudes that people go on about.

I agree with you on some points. The problem is not just the community but the staff too, however I do not see where paid plugins enter in this problem.
If paid plugins did not exist, the problems would still be there.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  MYBB when i first arrived ( Sept 2006 ) was a great and friendly place and then the paid crap arrived and changed all that and everything has gone down hill since. Look at who MYBB continues to attract and look at who they dont. The answers are all there.

Various things happened since then, not only the paid plugins "appeared" but other things have changed and I have to agree with Yumi on this.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  AGAIN i am not saying to have your own sites to sell them but again they need to be removed from the MYBB community all together. wanna advertise them do as all the rest do and use the showcase forum or better yet release some free stuff on mybb and do support at your own sites where people can see the paid stuff you all offer. Ofcourse you have your sigs as well.

Now how about you tell me how any of what i say is wrong IF you think i am that is?  I am almost certain you will and it is pretty obvious as to why. Sorry dude but they need to be removed from the community forums and more encouragement towards the opensource way is what needs to happen.

If MyBB prohibits me from releasing paid plugins on MyBB, I will gladly remove all my paid plugins release threads from their website.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  MYBB has done a ton to attract more and better users. Great software. They changed the license and still nothing and that leaves the stuff i have mentioned. Thus where the problems are. They can change the license all they want but i can assure you and everyone else that as long as those paid plugins are on that forum MYBB will never be taken serious ( big sponsers etc )  and the problems will continue. Yeah the paid guys chipped in big time for the donation drive for the mybb.com but again that wont mean a thing with things as is.

So, according to you, MyBB will not have big sponsors because of paid plugins? Hmm, that simply makes no sense.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  And understand i too love mybb and why it pisses me off to see this. It is a great script and as said support for me has always been great. Thus i don't wanna see it stuck in the shadows because of this paid crap. If i did not care i would not be typing up books for responses and would not say a damn thing. IF mybb would stick with opensource and encourage it i am near certain donations would pick up. I know i would. Why the heck should anyone feel a desire to donate when support/developers etc are charging and or associated with money making off the system?

I can't agree with you on that, MyBB developers are not charging for anything. You sure you know what you're talking about?

[Harry]

(05-13-2010 09:55 PM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(05-13-2010 10:03 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  Could you please elaborate why paid plugins are the cause of MyBB's problem? If they suddenly disappeared, would the problems disappear too? Which problems are related to paid plugins? I'd like you to answer these questions in detail if possible, I don't really see any sense in your reply to be honest.
Plus, I haven't seen Yumi saying he left the MyBB website because of paid plugins as you said. Why would someone leave a website because someone else is selling plugins?

Before i answer.. I'll be happy once the horrible nested quotes are done away with.
Anyways..

Lets look at phpbb. Yeah i know some hate that but it brings home the point.
They dont have them. We all know that. Soo..
1. Do you see the same endless drama on their forums? No you do not.
2. They continue to thrive despite having not so great of a script. Think about this. Unsure if you ever used a phpbb forum but i can tell you i have and it is nothing like mybb or near as good.
3. PHPBB has done just fine and continues to do just fine without paid mods/plugins on that site. No issues with donations/sponsers and or supporters. Ofcourse a huge modification community to boot. Sorry but the paid stuff would NOT be missed. And i am near certain that if you or the rest left others ( probably those more into the opensource way such as yumi here )  would fill the gap. A HUGE win for mybb.

Those 3 arguments are in my opinion invalid arguments. We're talking about MyBB, not PHPbb and they can't be compared since they're different in many things.
You haven't actually answered my questions directly, without giving PHPbb's examples which are invalid for this discussion since we're talking about MyBB.
I'm up for Open Source, NewPoints is GPL and so are some of my other projects outside of MyBB.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  Nobody wants to do anything ( see again yumi ) as far as developing and releasing free stuff anymore and the reason is because of the paid guys and their nasty rotten attitudes and then you have developers/staff involved with the crap as well making it 100x worse. NOT saying you are one of them but everyone and thier mother are well aware of the nasty attitudes of the paid plugin guys at mybb. Read the development sites like Taz etc. Again it is the competitive nature of them that has made for the rotten attitudes because everyone is killing eachother to get ahead or slamming the guy who asks for a free alternative which should NEVER HAPPEN on a opensource project PERIOD but yet it happens constantly. Yeah i have read the crap from one paid plugin author jumping on another paid guy saying they are selling crap etc etc etc. It is totally out of control. So yeah if they did disappear i am 99.9% confident the problems would go away.

No one wants to do free plugins anymore? By looking at the first page I can't see any paid plugins: http://community.mybb.com/forum-102.html
You haven't yet proved how MyBB's problems would disappear. What are exactly MyBB's problems from your point of view?

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  KEEP in mind though as i have mentioned there is some needed changes with the hot heads on the development/staff team as well. Not many really but i wont point fingers at any one person. All i am pretty sure know where the problems are. Again this stuff is well known. In short they need to stick with development and in the background out of the public eye except to help if need be. I do think though the attitudes would lighten up if the paid competitive crap was removed from the community forums. That is because there would be alot less bickering and everything else. All equalls less stress for the developers and rest of the team members. Would probably go a long ways towards improved attitudes that people go on about.

I agree with you on some points. The problem is not just the community but the staff too, however I do not see where paid plugins enter in this problem.
If paid plugins did not exist, the problems would still be there.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  MYBB when i first arrived ( Sept 2006 ) was a great and friendly place and then the paid crap arrived and changed all that and everything has gone down hill since. Look at who MYBB continues to attract and look at who they dont. The answers are all there.

Various things happened since then, not only the paid plugins "appeared" but other things have changed and I have to agree with Yumi on this.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  AGAIN i am not saying to have your own sites to sell them but again they need to be removed from the MYBB community all together. wanna advertise them do as all the rest do and use the showcase forum or better yet release some free stuff on mybb and do support at your own sites where people can see the paid stuff you all offer. Ofcourse you have your sigs as well.

Now how about you tell me how any of what i say is wrong IF you think i am that is?  I am almost certain you will and it is pretty obvious as to why. Sorry dude but they need to be removed from the community forums and more encouragement towards the opensource way is what needs to happen.

If MyBB prohibits me from releasing paid plugins on MyBB, I will gladly remove all my paid plugins release threads from their website.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  MYBB has done a ton to attract more and better users. Great software. They changed the license and still nothing and that leaves the stuff i have mentioned. Thus where the problems are. They can change the license all they want but i can assure you and everyone else that as long as those paid plugins are on that forum MYBB will never be taken serious ( big sponsers etc )  and the problems will continue. Yeah the paid guys chipped in big time for the donation drive for the mybb.com but again that wont mean a thing with things as is.

So, according to you, MyBB will not have big sponsors because of paid plugins? Hmm, that simply makes no sense.

(05-13-2010 10:51 AM)Harry Wrote:  And understand i too love mybb and why it pisses me off to see this. It is a great script and as said support for me has always been great. Thus i don't wanna see it stuck in the shadows because of this paid crap. If i did not care i would not be typing up books for responses and would not say a damn thing. IF mybb would stick with opensource and encourage it i am near certain donations would pick up. I know i would. Why the heck should anyone feel a desire to donate when support/developers etc are charging and or associated with money making off the system?

I can't agree with you on that, MyBB developers are not charging for anything. You sure you know what you're talking about?

You have not disproved anything i said YET. Sorry but phpbb is very relevant to the situation because it is a opensource forum script as well. You don't agree with it because you cannot argue it and rightfully so. It is cool though. And re read what i said. I said connected to ( that means moderate etc at a paid plugin site ) and or have their own paid plugins as far as the developers/support/team members go. It is not as simple as you think. I suggest you learn about who and or why sponsors do what they do. I have worked with them before and clearly know how they operate. It is all about perceptions. MYBB has not made a complete effort towards opensource and that will never change as long as those paid plugins are on that site.

In the end you will NEVER agree because you are one who charges ( so why would you ever agree )  and so lets end it with that and agree to disagree. It is all good and i don't hate you. You are ok in my book. Same cant be said about a few of the others who blow up when this subject comes up and act like total asses.

[Pirata Nervo]

(05-14-2010 04:36 AM)Harry Wrote:  You have not disproved anything i said YET. Sorry but phpbb is very relevant to the situation because it is a opensource forum script as well. You don't agree with it because you cannot argue it and rightfully so. It is cool though. And re read what i said. I said connected to ( that means moderate etc at a paid plugin site ) and or have their own paid plugins as far as the developers/support/team members go. It is not as simple as you think. I suggest you learn about who and or why sponsors do what they do. I have worked with them before and clearly know how they operate. It is all about perceptions. MYBB has not made a complete effort towards opensource and that will never change as long as those paid plugins are on that site.

In the end you will NEVER agree because you are one who charges ( so why would you ever agree )  and so lets end it with that and agree to disagree. It is all good and i don't hate you. You are ok in my book. Same cant be said about a few of the others who blow up when this subject comes up and act like total asses.

I don't have any problems with admitting that I might be wrong and that I might be doing something bad. However, I just can't agree with you since I don't think that's the problem.
Plus, sponsors do not care about paid plugins since they're not part of the main project.

[Harry]

(05-14-2010 05:45 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(05-14-2010 04:36 AM)Harry Wrote:  You have not disproved anything i said YET. Sorry but phpbb is very relevant to the situation because it is a opensource forum script as well. You don't agree with it because you cannot argue it and rightfully so. It is cool though. And re read what i said. I said connected to ( that means moderate etc at a paid plugin site ) and or have their own paid plugins as far as the developers/support/team members go. It is not as simple as you think. I suggest you learn about who and or why sponsors do what they do. I have worked with them before and clearly know how they operate. It is all about perceptions. MYBB has not made a complete effort towards opensource and that will never change as long as those paid plugins are on that site.

In the end you will NEVER agree because you are one who charges ( so why would you ever agree )  and so lets end it with that and agree to disagree. It is all good and i don't hate you. You are ok in my book. Same cant be said about a few of the others who blow up when this subject comes up and act like total asses.

I don't have any problems with admitting that I might be wrong and that I might be doing something bad. However, I just can't agree with you since I don't think that's the problem.
Plus, sponsors do not care about paid plugins since they're not part of the main project.

They DO care when members of the team are involved with them be it as a moderator or owner of a site that does or ofcourse releases them themselves. It is clearly evident on that forum that open source is not encouraged ( huge no no with sponsors ) because if it was encouraged you would not have ANY team members directing people to a paid plugin site for starters and this happens regardless if the plugin is already available for free. And then ofcourse they allow them to boot. YES Sponsors do care about that. They figure hell why should i sponsor them when they have sources of income EVEN THOUGH the project itself and or Chris B. may not be taking any in. They do not feel like playing guessing games either. All that matters as said is the paid stuff is there and you have team members who direct people to the paid stuff and or is somehow involved in the paid plugin site and or releases them themselves. That is it. Simple as that.