[split] The SUPER EPIC!! debate about paid MyBB modifications!

[walkman]

This seems like a very sensitive issue with you Harry and I don''t think we can have a healthy debate here so I will not be posting my opinion further to avoid arguments. But know wone thing, that a lot of coders at phpbb have thought and are thinking to go paid with their mods for the reasons explained above by Pirata Nervo.

[Pirata Nervo]

(06-02-2010 05:09 PM)Harry Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 08:43 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 05:47 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(06-01-2010 04:15 AM)walkman Wrote:  After reading carefully all the posts here I agree with Harry that the mod section at the official mybb forum should be free of all paid plugins. However, I understand the paid plugin makers as well being one myself. I have created several mods at phpbb but now I am looking for a new challenge.

Harry, let me ask you something, have you ever created a plugin? From your posts I don''t think so. Because if you did then you should know that it takes time and effort to do that and if someone comes and downloads it without a thank you then you would have had enough of it. But as said above, they shouldn''t be allowed to be posted at mybb.com

If they make use of my work i will be delighted. I don't need $$$ as a form of a thank you. Yes a simple thank you is very nice as well. My joy comes from HELPING others and not taking advantage of them because i know how to code and they don't. That is how i see it. MYBB has had a ton of work put in to it and thus a ton of time and yet they do it all for free. Sorry but bringing in a commercial environment has killed it. It should have never happened or MYBB should have gone paid back when. Look at the thread starter here and thus read his posts. Many more who have gotten tired of it over there because of the paid authors attitude. The attitude stems from competition thanks to the commercial environment prevalent there.

Oh well don't worry.. Ole labrocca has donated enough to insure that mybb will change the license enough to make him and the rest happy. Can already see the writing on the wall with that.. So it will be business as usual except they wont be able to use the release forum which yes is a help. Will to bet that once business starts being affected they will start crying again till it goes back to the way it is now.

You say that because you actually have never developed any piece of software. Sometimes a thank you and lots of stupid support questions is does not compensate the time we spend developing certain plugins.

Why doesn't MYBB feel that way? Why doesn't zinga feel that way? Why do the coders at phpbb not feel that way? And please don't tell me what i haven't done. Hell why did i pay out of pocket for 4 years just so a number of people could have a place they can call home? You know very little about me to even suggest such. Maybe if you hate those stupid support questions as you say that much you should find something else to do with your time?  

Again you all wanna make money off the GPL go for it. I have no issues and i'll even help as said. That is a promise and you can quote me on that. But to try and close off the license for plugins just to continue business as is? NO. Seeing what has happened and well looks to continue to happen ( labroccas donating equal him getting whatever he wants which was MADE POSSIBLE by his closed license on his pay for plugins ) there is no way i could ever support business as is. This is why the GPL is there in the first place. YES it allows for all to make money off of it ( even encourages it ) BUT it keeps commercial interest from having TOO MUCH influence and or taking over a project.

Alot of people have waited a long time for a great script with great support and developement to come along which we now have with MYBB and i'll be dammed if i am gonna sit idle and let a few turn it to crap for their self serving interest. And yeah that is exactly what is gonna happen the moment MYBB make adjustments to the license so you all can have your closed licenses for the plugins. MYBB will be seen as a total JOKE by many because a supposed opensource/GPL project caved in to those few who as well happen to have donated the most to the project.  Need not say how that looks.

We're talking about paid plugins, not the license and not about labrocca.
I can actually make such assumptions by reading any of your posts. Just because the MyBB team is developing MyBB for free, it doesn't mean they're developing all their softwares for free. Ask Zinga for example, you "quote" Zinga a lot of times but I know Zinga better than you do and I can guarantee you that he does not do everything for free.

I'll ask myself, why is NewPoints free? Well that's simple, it's exactly because I want it to be free. Now, I don't have to answer stupid support questions regarding all of my plugins without getting anythign in exchange. I'd rather keep all of them on my Desktop and not sharing them with people. And don't say that this is immature or arrogant or selfish because it's not. It's what I've done, I can do whatever I want with it.

Do you work for free by the way? If you do, I guess someone must be paying your electricity bills, gas bills, water bills, food, etc. But since I doubt this is true, I'm guessing you work in exchange for money too.

[MattF]

(06-02-2010 05:09 PM)Harry Wrote:  Alot of people have waited a long time for a great script with great support and developement to come along which we now have with MYBB and i'll be dammed if i am gonna sit idle and let a few turn it to crap for their self serving interest. And yeah that is exactly what is gonna happen the moment MYBB make adjustments to the license so you all can have your closed licenses for the plugins. MYBB will be seen as a total JOKE by many because a supposed opensource/GPL project caved in to those few who as well happen to have donated the most to the project.  Need not say how that looks.

Create a fork of the MyBB project if you are so vehement about keeping every aspect of it free, in all senses of the term. You have said that you're willing to provide your work for free:

Quote:If they make use of my work i will be delighted. I don't need $$$ as a form of a thank you. Yes a simple thank you is very nice as well. My joy comes from HELPING others and not taking advantage of them because i know how to code and they don't.

Fork it. You'll then have total control over the licence and enforcing it. What better way to serve the community than forking the project? You suggest the existing team are being manipulated, so they obviously cannot be trusted to do so.

[Harry]

(06-03-2010 02:10 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 05:09 PM)Harry Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 08:43 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 05:47 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(06-01-2010 04:15 AM)walkman Wrote:  After reading carefully all the posts here I agree with Harry that the mod section at the official mybb forum should be free of all paid plugins. However, I understand the paid plugin makers as well being one myself. I have created several mods at phpbb but now I am looking for a new challenge.

Harry, let me ask you something, have you ever created a plugin? From your posts I don''t think so. Because if you did then you should know that it takes time and effort to do that and if someone comes and downloads it without a thank you then you would have had enough of it. But as said above, they shouldn''t be allowed to be posted at mybb.com

If they make use of my work i will be delighted. I don't need $$$ as a form of a thank you. Yes a simple thank you is very nice as well. My joy comes from HELPING others and not taking advantage of them because i know how to code and they don't. That is how i see it. MYBB has had a ton of work put in to it and thus a ton of time and yet they do it all for free. Sorry but bringing in a commercial environment has killed it. It should have never happened or MYBB should have gone paid back when. Look at the thread starter here and thus read his posts. Many more who have gotten tired of it over there because of the paid authors attitude. The attitude stems from competition thanks to the commercial environment prevalent there.

Oh well don't worry.. Ole labrocca has donated enough to insure that mybb will change the license enough to make him and the rest happy. Can already see the writing on the wall with that.. So it will be business as usual except they wont be able to use the release forum which yes is a help. Will to bet that once business starts being affected they will start crying again till it goes back to the way it is now.

You say that because you actually have never developed any piece of software. Sometimes a thank you and lots of stupid support questions is does not compensate the time we spend developing certain plugins.

Why doesn't MYBB feel that way? Why doesn't zinga feel that way? Why do the coders at phpbb not feel that way? And please don't tell me what i haven't done. Hell why did i pay out of pocket for 4 years just so a number of people could have a place they can call home? You know very little about me to even suggest such. Maybe if you hate those stupid support questions as you say that much you should find something else to do with your time?  

Again you all wanna make money off the GPL go for it. I have no issues and i'll even help as said. That is a promise and you can quote me on that. But to try and close off the license for plugins just to continue business as is? NO. Seeing what has happened and well looks to continue to happen ( labroccas donating equal him getting whatever he wants which was MADE POSSIBLE by his closed license on his pay for plugins ) there is no way i could ever support business as is. This is why the GPL is there in the first place. YES it allows for all to make money off of it ( even encourages it ) BUT it keeps commercial interest from having TOO MUCH influence and or taking over a project.

Alot of people have waited a long time for a great script with great support and developement to come along which we now have with MYBB and i'll be dammed if i am gonna sit idle and let a few turn it to crap for their self serving interest. And yeah that is exactly what is gonna happen the moment MYBB make adjustments to the license so you all can have your closed licenses for the plugins. MYBB will be seen as a total JOKE by many because a supposed opensource/GPL project caved in to those few who as well happen to have donated the most to the project.  Need not say how that looks.

We're talking about paid plugins, not the license and not about labrocca.
I can actually make such assumptions by reading any of your posts. Just because the MyBB team is developing MyBB for free, it doesn't mean they're developing all their softwares for free. Ask Zinga for example, you "quote" Zinga a lot of times but I know Zinga better than you do and I can guarantee you that he does not do everything for free.

I'll ask myself, why is NewPoints free? Well that's simple, it's exactly because I want it to be free. Now, I don't have to answer stupid support questions regarding all of my plugins without getting anythign in exchange. I'd rather keep all of them on my Desktop and not sharing them with people. And don't say that this is immature or arrogant or selfish because it's not. It's what I've done, I can do whatever I want with it.

Do you work for free by the way? If you do, I guess someone must be paying your electricity bills, gas bills, water bills, food, etc. But since I doubt this is true, I'm guessing you work in exchange for money too.

Come on now. We are talking about plugins for a free forum system. No way would i even attempt to think about earning a living doing that. This too is part of the problem which i am glad you mentioned. Thus some thinking they can make a living off of plugins for a free forum script. That's not good.

As for what i do? I sell specialized weather data. I have free stuff as well. I do a ton of volunteer work as well. Online and offline. I am sure Zinga does paid work as well. I highly suspect though it is not for a free forum system/open source project UNLESS it is custom work. THUS the difference. he can ofcourse correct me if need be.

The other issue is how far back development is getting and thus no real advancements in forum software for a while now. Unsure of what but the last biggest thing to come along was either the social stuff or the plugin system. That has now been how long ago? Most of what we have today was thanks to the modifcations communities on these forums of days past. Now hardly anyone wants to help advance it all and i strongly believe that is because as is they can make a quick buck instead. Leaves little incentive to create/think of ways to further advance it. Most of the stuff now being charged for has been in mod/plugin form for a good while and thus nothing hardly new or unique. It is too easy as is.
I think part of that is because of a new generation that has arrived. The older ones and or ones who were around back in the early 2000s and before were more focused on advancing everything and thus the stronger desire to share and work together.

(06-03-2010 03:36 AM)MattF Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 05:09 PM)Harry Wrote:  Alot of people have waited a long time for a great script with great support and developement to come along which we now have with MYBB and i'll be dammed if i am gonna sit idle and let a few turn it to crap for their self serving interest. And yeah that is exactly what is gonna happen the moment MYBB make adjustments to the license so you all can have your closed licenses for the plugins. MYBB will be seen as a total JOKE by many because a supposed opensource/GPL project caved in to those few who as well happen to have donated the most to the project.  Need not say how that looks.

Create a fork of the MyBB project if you are so vehement about keeping every aspect of it free, in all senses of the term. You have said that you're willing to provide your work for free:

Quote:If they make use of my work i will be delighted. I don't need $$$ as a form of a thank you. Yes a simple thank you is very nice as well. My joy comes from HELPING others and not taking advantage of them because i know how to code and they don't.

Fork it. You'll then have total control over the licence and enforcing it. What better way to serve the community than forking the project? You suggest the existing team are being manipulated, so they obviously cannot be trusted to do so.

Believe me i am really considering doing just that. Matter of putting a team together. Which yeah i do check and see if there is interest. Something like this is not just something done on the fly or you end up with the other disasters we have seen by others who have done just that. Personally i would rather not and just help make MYBB better. Thus why i am discussing all of this.

[Harry]

(06-03-2010 02:10 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  I'll ask myself, why is NewPoints free? Well that's simple, it's exactly because I want it to be free. Now, I don't have to answer stupid support questions regarding all of my plugins without getting anythign in exchange. I'd rather keep all of them on my Desktop and not sharing them with people. And don't say that this is immature or arrogant or selfish because it's not. It's what I've done, I can do whatever I want with it.

Sorry for quoting the same thing twice but i have a question/some thoughts  related to this.

I guess this where i may be considered a odd ball. But why not sell that ( NewPoints ) vs say all the stupid little plugins ? This IS something i know a ton of time went into unlike the others?

You see my thinking is that the small stuff equal the advertisers/appetizers  ( whatever you wish to call it ) to the bigger ones such as that New points of yours. You follow me? Then as well people see all the little add ons for that plugin of yours and say wow that looks even more tempting. See what i am saying?

[ZiNgA BuRgA]

I'll interject and comment on my liking of the word "fork".  Possibly because on my own forums, I censor another particular f word with "fork".
BTW, if you do the reverse with the forking statement, you get some interesting results.

(06-03-2010 08:35 AM)Harry Wrote:  I guess this where i may be considered a odd ball. But why not sell that ( NewPoints ) vs say all the stupid little plugins ? This IS something i know a ton of time went into unlike the others?

MyPlaza is a bitch.  When I released it, labrocca made this huge sob thread at the community, cause one of his most popular plugins got superseded.  And he made MYPS free in response to a 1.4 MyPlaza (thanks to Pirata Nervo).
Although charging for New Points won't be distracted much by MyPlaza cause no-one wants to support it, and most of the people at the community forums are there for support after all...

[MattF]

(06-03-2010 07:29 AM)Harry Wrote:  Believe me i am really considering doing just that. Matter of putting a team together. Which yeah i do check and see if there is interest. Something like this is not just something done on the fly or you end up with the other disasters we have seen by others who have done just that. Personally i would rather not and just help make MYBB better. Thus why i am discussing all of this.

From an outsiders perspective, (ignoring the fact that I personally am not a fan of the software in general), I personally think a fork would be a better solution. No matter how hard I try to take a positive view on this point, I honestly don't think some of the current Dev team wouldn't know their arse from their elbow if it was painted red and sign posted with a neon sign with regards to certain matters regarding development. A different approach with regards to certain parts of the system could be quite beneficial. That's just my personal opinion though.

[Pirata Nervo]

I'll reply to new posts once I get up within 8 hours, it's too late now, I just got home and I can't read things properly, I need some sleep. I need to post this so I remember to check this thread tomorrow

[Firefox Wins]

(06-03-2010 08:48 AM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:  ...MyPlaza cause no-one wants to support it...

You are not entirely correct this time, Zinga/Yumi. I willl support MyPlaza for MyBB1.6, and eagerly follow your suggestions regarding how to help convert from your 1.2 code to 1.6, assuming MyPlaza Turbo 1.4 is not available.
How soon can we get started?

[Pirata Nervo]

(06-03-2010 07:29 AM)Harry Wrote:  Come on now. We are talking about plugins for a free forum system. No way would i even attempt to think about earning a living doing that. This too is part of the problem which i am glad you mentioned. Thus some thinking they can make a living off of plugins for a free forum script. That's not good.

I can do that if I want to. Just because the FORUM SCRIPT is free, it doesn't mean EXTENSIONS for it must be. (from an ethical point of a view, not license point of view)

(06-03-2010 07:29 AM)Harry Wrote:  The other issue is how far back development is getting and thus no real advancements in forum software for a while now. Unsure of what but the last biggest thing to come along was either the social stuff or the plugin system. That has now been how long ago? Most of what we have today was thanks to the modifcations communities on these forums of days past. Now hardly anyone wants to help advance it all and i strongly believe that is because as is they can make a quick buck instead. Leaves little incentive to create/think of ways to further advance it. Most of the stuff now being charged for has been in mod/plugin form for a good while and thus nothing hardly new or unique. It is too easy as is.
I think part of that is because of a new generation that has arrived. The older ones and or ones who were around back in the early 2000s and before were more focused on advancing everything and thus the stronger desire to share and work together.

I'm going to show how you're wrong.
Imagine I join the team because I want to help the team and advance development. Imagine I would still sell my plugins. I'd get flamed by people like you everytime someone mentioned paid plugins. Not sure what's the fun in joining the team if I'm going to get flamed and blamed for the problems of MyBB.
I'd rather not join the team and continue to develop plugins.

(06-03-2010 07:29 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(06-03-2010 03:36 AM)MattF Wrote:  

(06-02-2010 05:09 PM)Harry Wrote:  Alot of people have waited a long time for a great script with great support and developement to come along which we now have with MYBB and i'll be dammed if i am gonna sit idle and let a few turn it to crap for their self serving interest. And yeah that is exactly what is gonna happen the moment MYBB make adjustments to the license so you all can have your closed licenses for the plugins. MYBB will be seen as a total JOKE by many because a supposed opensource/GPL project caved in to those few who as well happen to have donated the most to the project.  Need not say how that looks.

Create a fork of the MyBB project if you are so vehement about keeping every aspect of it free, in all senses of the term. You have said that you're willing to provide your work for free:

Quote:If they make use of my work i will be delighted. I don't need $$$ as a form of a thank you. Yes a simple thank you is very nice as well. My joy comes from HELPING others and not taking advantage of them because i know how to code and they don't.

Fork it. You'll then have total control over the licence and enforcing it. What better way to serve the community than forking the project? You suggest the existing team are being manipulated, so they obviously cannot be trusted to do so.

Believe me i am really considering doing just that. Matter of putting a team together. Which yeah i do check and see if there is interest. Something like this is not just something done on the fly or you end up with the other disasters we have seen by others who have done just that. Personally i would rather not and just help make MYBB better. Thus why i am discussing all of this.

Sure, it's easier to say "Personally i would rather not and just help make MYBB better." than actually forking it, right? I haven't seen you helping MyBB yet, nor forking it.

(06-03-2010 08:35 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(06-03-2010 02:10 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  I'll ask myself, why is NewPoints free? Well that's simple, it's exactly because I want it to be free. Now, I don't have to answer stupid support questions regarding all of my plugins without getting anythign in exchange. I'd rather keep all of them on my Desktop and not sharing them with people. And don't say that this is immature or arrogant or selfish because it's not. It's what I've done, I can do whatever I want with it.

Sorry for quoting the same thing twice but i have a question/some thoughts  related to this.

I guess this where i may be considered a odd ball. But why not sell that ( NewPoints ) vs say all the stupid little plugins ? This IS something i know a ton of time went into unlike the others?

You see my thinking is that the small stuff equal the advertisers/appetizers  ( whatever you wish to call it ) to the bigger ones such as that New points of yours. You follow me? Then as well people see all the little add ons for that plugin of yours and say wow that looks even more tempting. See what i am saying?

Not really. Care to elaborate?