Poll to express opinions concerning Bob Jansen

[Harry]

(07-19-2010 10:42 AM)exdiogene Wrote:  @Harry :

I am very sorry to tell you this, but i strongly suggest you to read the GPL license properly or consult a lawyer before stating complete non-sense affirmations.

If a user decide to install a non-GPL add-ons over a GPL application, they are doing something wrong if they try to redistribute the add-ons afterward. And no GPL application owner can do anything against a non-GPL addons author just because he created it or have it for sale...

So, please reconsider your affirmations with a previous legal consultation. Because it is evident that you lack international legal knowledge.

Thank you.

You are not understanding the issue. The issue is ALL plugins/themes for MYBB are GPL. You cannot make a non GPL add-on ( Plugin ) for MYBB. Anything added/plugins are GPL if they plugin to MYBB. Doesn't matter if the plugin author used a license that shouldn't have used. That license is invalid and thus the plugin IS gpl.

So ANYONE doing a add-on/plugin for MYBB and tries to use a non GPL compliant license is the ones who are in the wrong.

---

Example....

Say i release a profile plugin for MYBB. IF i try to slap on a license that forbids redistributing then i am NOT complying with the GPL and there for my license is invalid and the GPL is what overrides it. So if you were to buy it you could legally redistribute it and there is nothing i can do. That is because the GPL allows for redistributing.

THAT BTW is why MYBB is talking about going with the LGPL.. That would allow the type of license that would forbid redistributing the plugin and or theme. That will be for those who wish to do stuff on their own sites as everything posted/added to MYBB.COM will have to be GPL.

[exdiogene]

You are still repeating the same thing that i tried to explain you.

You are wrong in your deductions :

1- You cannot make a non GPL add-on ( Plugin ) for MYBB. <-- THIS IS FALSE
2- Anything added/plugins are GPL if they plugin to MYBB. <-- THIS IS FALSE
3- That license is invalid and thus the plugin IS gpl. <-- THIS IS FALSE
4- So ANYONE doing a add-on/plugin for MYBB and tries to use a non GPL compliant license is the ones who are in the wrong. <-- THIS IS FALSE

1- In an international free market, any software developpers can make almost any kind of non GPL add-ons with a legal license attached to it.
2- It is the person buying a non GPL compliant licensed add-ons and installing it over a GPL MyBB that is wrong!
The author license is still valid for non-redistribution if it is mentionned.
3- The wrong doing of a user do not invalidate the plugin license itself.
4- The user associating the two incompatible licenses is the one in the wrong.

Just to help you understand the concept, take as an example if Ford was giving the interdiction to install any part on their vehicule not make by Ford for security issues and invalidate any waranty if this is done.

No lawyer or judge would be able to stop any companies to produce replacement parts for Ford vehicule and sell them. They would no more be able to do anything against a user buying those parts.

But they could act if Ford make a complaint against a user INSTALLING the part on the vehicule.

I hope that now you will understand a little bit more about legal processes...

[Harry]

(07-19-2010 11:13 AM)exdiogene Wrote:  You are still repeating the same thing that i tried to explain you.

You are wrong in your deductions :

1- You cannot make a non GPL add-on ( Plugin ) for MYBB. <-- THIS IS FALSE
2- Anything added/plugins are GPL if they plugin to MYBB. <-- THIS IS FALSE
3- That license is invalid and thus the plugin IS gpl. <-- THIS IS FALSE
4- So ANYONE doing a add-on/plugin for MYBB and tries to use a non GPL compliant license is the ones who are in the wrong. <-- THIS IS FALSE

1- In an international free market, any software developpers can make almost any kind of non GPL add-ons with a legal license attached to it.
2- It is the person buying a non GPL compliant licensed add-ons and installing it over a GPL MyBB that is wrong!
The author license is still valid for non-redistribution if it is mentionned.
3- The wrong doing of a user do not invalidate the plugin license itself.
4- The user associating the two incompatible licenses is the one in the wrong.

Just to help you understand the concept, take as an example if Ford was giving the interdiction to install any part on their vehicule not make by Ford for security issues and invalidate any waranty if this is done.

No lawyer or judge would be able to stop any companies to produce replacement parts for Ford vehicule and sell them. They would no more be able to do anything against a user buying those parts.

But they could act if Ford make a complaint against a user INSTALLING the part on the vehicule.

I hope that now you will understand a little bit more about legal processes...

All i can say is learn the GPL because it is you that is wrong. MYBB is GPL and ANYTHING that touches the codebase is GPL as well. This has zero to do with Ford and whoever else as Ford is NOT GPL.

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Also see this..
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

That explains how it works.

[exdiogene]

(07-19-2010 11:17 AM)Harry Wrote:  All i can say is learn the GPL because it is you that is wrong. MYBB is GPL and ANYTHING that touches the codebase is GPL as well. This has zero to do with Ford and whoever else as Ford is NOT GPL.

You tell it yourself "ANYTHING that touches the codebase is GPL as well".

When a add-on is created, it is not touching the codebase.

When a add-on is sold, it is not touching the codebase.

When a add-on is installed it is touching the codebase. Then it is the user that create this action and if this action is against the add-on creator license content, then they are at fault, not the author.

Please hire a lawyer, we have our own...

P.S. I completely read two GPL versions, so i know what i am talking about. Have you?

[Harry]

(07-19-2010 11:23 AM)exdiogene Wrote:  

(07-19-2010 11:17 AM)Harry Wrote:  All i can say is learn the GPL because it is you that is wrong. MYBB is GPL and ANYTHING that touches the codebase is GPL as well. This has zero to do with Ford and whoever else as Ford is NOT GPL.

You tell it yourself "ANYTHING that touches the codebase is GPL as well".

When a add-on is created, it is not touching the codebase.

When a add-on is sold, it is not touching the codebase.

When a add-on is installed it is touching the codebase. Then it is the user that create this action and if this action is against the add-on creator license content, then they are at fault, not the author.

Please hire a lawyer, we have our own...

P.S. I completely read two GPL versions, so i know what i am talking about. Have you?

Well send me your MYBB plugin and i will redistribute it and see what happens. I can assure you i am in the right because the program is GPL because MYBB is GPL.

I suggest you get your so called lawyers to read up on the GPL. They are wrong.

[exdiogene]

Ok i give up,

you prefer to do something against the law instead of understanding.

I hope that you will never get sued because of such action.

I am over with this discussion...

[Harry]

(07-19-2010 11:31 AM)exdiogene Wrote:  Ok i give up,

you prefer to do something against the law instead of understanding.

I hope that you will never get sued because of such action.

I am over with this discussion...

I am 100% certain i will never be sued because i am not breaking any law.  Please stop insinuating that because it is false.

No need to get worked up.

All i am saying that all MYBB plugins MUST be GPL. Actually if they are not GPL then that plugin author is the one who could end up in hot water for violating the terms of the GPL.

It is all right there in that link for you and anyone else to see.

---

Again once MYBB is LGPL then what i said will no longer apply. For now though it does.

No biggie.

[Lich_king2]

I'm seriously wondering if MyBB has guts to close MyBBCentral and end this madness? The part of staff should be kicked from team because of LGPL. They won't even have guts to replace the whole development team with someone else.
Oh and please read the GPL again exdiogene. Also if you want to start real mess with MyBB breaking licenses let me ask for the help of my lawyers. PS: I go to law school so it shouldn't be a problem choosing 1 from 40 of them.

[ZiNgA BuRgA]

No, plugins don't actually have to be GPL compatible.
Take it this way - it's quite possible for multiple software to use the exact same plugin API, without infringing on any sort of intellectual rights (remember, only work falls under copyright, ideas do not).  So if I made a commercial application which uses the same structure as the MyBB plugin API, I could potentially code something which could be a plugin for my application, or MyBB.

If I intended my plugin to only work with my application, but, as they use the same (or similar) API, and as a consequence, works with MyBB as well, does my plugin fall under a GPL linking provision?
This sort of thing is plausible in a PHP world, especially MyBB, due to its fairly simple plugin API - it's quite possible for another application to use the same API.
The linking clause of GPL is more targeted at compiled languages like C, where programs are explicitly statically linked to libraries (or a stub, linking to a dynamic library) - in which case, you can easily enforce such a restriction.  However, it still doesn't cover all forms of dynamic linking, or at least, this isn't even entirely clear:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Point_of_view:_static_linking_violates_GPL_but_not_dynam
I can think of a number of non-GPL compatible applications which link with GPL components and have worked fine without issue.

From my understanding, the move to LGPL is primarily aimed to be a clarifying move.

[Pirata Nervo]

(07-19-2010 09:33 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(07-19-2010 09:01 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(07-19-2010 08:48 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(07-19-2010 08:39 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(07-19-2010 08:29 AM)Harry Wrote:  

(07-19-2010 06:41 AM)Pirata Nervo Wrote:  

(07-18-2010 10:16 PM)Lich_king2 Wrote:  I wanted to say if we got rid of the script kiddie "source" half of the problems with payed plugins and whining would be gone. Also if ''his'' plugins follow GPL license, he shouldn't be allowed to issue C&D letters or DMCA. Can't we get rid of annoyances and remake the community to enjoy the software?

Again, I think you're referring to labrocca (?), next time please mention names otherwise I have to guess them which is not easy sometimes.
Anyway, yes his plugins do not follow the GPL license neither do mine. However, I could still force someone else's website to be closed temporarily until my plugins were removed from there in case that website was giving out plugins with a license not compatible with GPL (if my plugins were GPL).

Ummm.. No you could not. IF they change to a non GPL i suppose but that is it. Where the heck do some of you all get these ideas from?

Sorry but any of yours/labroccas etc plugins can be redistributed by ANYONE if they so feel like it and nothing any of you all can do. You all did not follow the GPL and thus are the ones at fault for trying to slap a non compatabile GPL license on your stuff. Sure you can sell it but whatever the person does with it is their own business as long as the GPL itself is respected.

I suggest you to re-read my post. Anyway to save you time, I'll highlight it for you:

Quote:Again, I think you're referring to labrocca (?), next time please mention names otherwise I have to guess them which is not easy sometimes.
Anyway, yes his plugins do not follow the GPL license neither do mine. However, I could still force someone else's website to be closed temporarily until my plugins were removed from there in case that website was giving out plugins with a license not compatible with GPL (if my plugins were GPL).

And read MINE again. You violated the GPL. Your plugins are supposed to be GPL atleast till MYBB goes LGPL. End of story. So anything you have done up to this point is GPL regardless of whatever non GPL license you are trying to push because that license is invalid. Again if i or anyone else subscribes wanted we could release your plugins for free or whatever else and not a thing you can do. I invite you to try and shut down any website and see what happens the moment the hosting provider finds out that MYBB is GPL as should it's plugins be. You may end up in bigger trouble especially if the site you caused to be taken offline loses income over it.

What it boils down to.. ALL of your mybb plugins/themes have to be GPL. If they are not that is on YOU but again nothing you can do if someone decides to wanna redistribute them. ZERO.. That is because MYBB is still GPL..

Oh well, I'll tell you to re-read my post again...as I've said, WHAT I SAID ONLY APPLIES IF MY PLUGINS WERE GPL

Regardless if they are or not the GPL overrides it. They are GPL no matter what license you ( or anyone else )  tried to use. YOUR license is invalid... So yeah they can be redistributed if the people buying them wants to do that. Sorry but just because you slap on a non compatible GPL license doesn't make it legal and will never hold up in a court of law or with trying to shut down a site for distributing them.

Since you're so obsessed with it, you just won't understand it. I don't really care anyway, I wasn't talking about my plugins being GPL or not, just explaning that I could force someone to get my plugins off his/her website if my plugins were GPL and that user was releasing my plugins under a non-GPL license.

If you still don't understand, I'll just skip your posts.

However, as zinga said, it's not very clear because no one knows if I have coded my own API that is similar to MyBB. No one knows it except me!

@exdiogene I believe you're incorrect this time GPL is known as a viral license exactly because once an API is GPL and some software uses it, it's automatically GPL. LGPL allows MyBB not to force plugins to be GPL.